* * *
Part 3 posted 10-13-10 Reflections at Noon of the Sun on the River perhaps too bright to see but not like the night, or moonlight.*h The idea is to have symbols and sounds which very effeciently encode possible notions such that the structure of them influences the evolving context but in an intelligible manner such that not so much nonsense combinations can occur. On the deeper level of a language here we also find the language influencing the perceptions and the perceptions the language as far as a more intimate and intrinsic structure grounding the language. Now while we may expect a reductionism for some comprehensive theory to be effecient, the theory as an abstract context itself may miss the greater abstractions and prospect of wider concrete evolving and application of notions and coherent symbols. This perhaps can be a metaphor for the question today on the reference frame - comparing the aether to a possible desired discover that the Higgs particle may not exist (and Lubos asks but what other alternative is offered and in pure abstraction the anthrocentric ideas in general are just a vague abstraction and logic of things- despite that the mechanism of the symmetries and breaking, multi-dimensions, and string theory he feels a mechanism that exists perhaps independent of these questions.)
*i Given the labels as signs and sounds for a topological system we further develop matrices for a context of changes in the word order and symbol order in words as a consecutive or positional code: that is say we have papap the a a in a five vowel system would have these possibilities assigned meanings aa, ae, ae,..., ue, ui, uu, to make 25 of which aa could be pixel like or neutral accross all such matrices and the 24 others themselves arranged (perceived mystically from a distance or concretely as a form of calculating, tallying as all such primitive alphabets around such a number of things turn from magical connotations to marks of commerence) in other geometric systems with a wider ground of possible higher meanings. The Higgs as a quasic reference concept beyond the idea of local or scale effects at a distance could be a mechanism of mass and not be or observed as a particle as such- here an analog in nature as a notion exists in the context of creative design which as with evolving human language has he stepping stones of ideas and concepts such that no necessary bottleneck exists where ideas can grow and yet are on the whole conserved so as the context is a reference of stability.
* * *
October 14, 2010 I had not planned to post here today but due to some interesting conversation with Sultan Ratrout will post it as is from facebook- it ended abruptly as the internet communications do and I hope the turn to religious matters will prove more relevant:
Today
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:42pm
hi, Chomsky says linguistics belongs to cognitive psychology
how about cognition and philosophy? we had a talk today over this
[You]
12:43pm
hey, not much new... maybe one idea. I really should read up on cognitive psychology to be sure I know its usual context
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:43pm
My colleague's view is that philosophic should be subsumed under cognition
thus he is close to Chomsky
[You]
12:43pm
where does cognition meet consciousness?
I may have had some stray thoughts like this last night
hmmmm
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:44pm
lol
:):)
[You]
12:44pm
OK it is easier to put down a memory than to recover it energy wise in computers
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:44pm
u need to be conscious to have cognition
[You]
12:45pm
you last and my last post I question
sometimes it takes energy to put down a memory but we can recall it right away
that was my thought
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:46pm
because its there
[You]
12:46pm
so maybe on some level we need not be conscious to understand something
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:46pm
we can recall it
[You]
12:46pm
if it is there is it ours uniquely or universal?
is the mechanism we set up for language the spirit of the language itself?
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:47pm
the ability to recall it is universal , i guess its all humans'
yes it is
[You]
12:47pm
and there is false memory, and old age forgetfulness
but what is normal forgetfulness?
now, if we are to set up an efficient and meaningful artificial language--- we have done this before and one method would be like the Chinese
what we do with syllables and word endings
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:48pm
see we are back to the challenges
[You]
12:49pm
so cvcvc is one such form but it is not as inefficient as Chinese where one syllable can mean a hundred things
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:49pm
that's right
[You]
12:49pm
Now, we can recall the spirit of some notion as if we were a cave man without many words
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:49pm
there is one important thing here to take into consideration
[You]
12:50pm
a simple language more with shared references as if the tribe had an inherited memory
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:50pm
we need to understand the nature of almost all languages and their limitations before we set up an artificial language
[You]
12:51pm
and we need to understand what it was like for humans to communicate with their new high intelligence before many symbols and words and diverse assignment of symbols and language structures
Otherwise, we may not find languages that did not develop in the past but could have
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:52pm
we have many theories of how language began
lets do this
[You]
12:52pm
but a universal plan if there is one would show like what could have been- as if there were no woolly mammoths but we could imagine one from the DNa
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:52pm
how about conceptualizing the scenario long time ago?
how language started ?
[You]
12:53pm
does tomorrow come? If we can see the past of such a language is there something worth finding in a planned future for one?
well, from the physics view, philosophically, it is a matter of taste and not fact to say the universe began or always was here
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:54pm
the distinctive characteristic of language , is that of displacement
[You]
12:54pm
Same with language. God beyond those ideas of space and time and the ordering of things
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:54pm
the ability to talk about the present past and future
[You]
12:54pm
displacement hmmm
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:54pm
that's called displacement
yes
[You]
12:55pm
oh, but even with the tense of things we do not stick to the declensions
which brings me back to a highly inflected proto-language for us Westerners
that includes Islam
and Greek
namely Sanskrit
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:56pm
we have the challenge raised by Whorf hypothesis , language and thought
[You]
12:56pm
Sanskrit then a wide world of possible combination's of tenses and time
early language as if th4 world became conscious all at once at the beginning of the alphanumerical or historical age
rather independent of the symbols
(little trouble typing, carrying a lot of stuff this morning)
by independent I mean the language allowed all possibilities and then evolved to more efficiency
independent of design mechanism and thought
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:58pm
this is what Chomsky said
evolved to more efficiency
[You]
12:59pm
so the idea is to ask at some foundation
what is the connection of language and thought
emotions evolve as well as intellect in mammals so why not language?
[Sultan Ratrout]
12:59pm
whether x determines y or the other way around
[You]
1:00pm
the question is meaningless if ultimately in physics we cannot show the how or even existence of cause and effect even in a moment
it is possible somewhere that we see the light before it leaves the torch, I mean ultimately and not just as a relativistic illusion
greater than instantaneous
this not science as such but fits with teleology
x and y subject and object more or less with universal recognition of greek roots a key to efficiency and simplicity in Interglossa
yes :):)
[You]
1:03pm
Sultan, you unlocked these stay thoughts into a higher level writing- almost worthy of posting on the blog
haahhha :):) that's what I want :):)
[You]
1:04pm
but I do not mean to take up all the conversations
pesla nearby
[Sultan Ratrout]
1:06pm
:):)
[You]
1:06pm
new scientist had article recently of humans before neanderthal who took care of a man who could not walk well or hunt- it said there must have been something he was valued in the tribe for them to feed him. Humans caring for each other goes way back
its sadi they were creatures before Adam on earth, human-like
said
[You]
1:08pm
and that the Lord took away the ability of the serpent to speak to Adam and eve in the cave (but that some unofficial gospel)
[Sultan Ratrout]
1:09pm
i will inshalalh search for that important link and will post it
wait plz
[You]
1:09pm
Y X maybe Adam the end of time as an ideal and creatures after that
tyt
[if Adam had no naval and yet was perfection then one cannot say he imperfect- for language like the cosmos may have had no umbilical ultimate beginning. What true then of our little sphere would be true wherever there are such gardens in the universe. All things in the present are beginning and ending]
trying to find the article, the theme of it is that before Adam there was a creature that looked like humans but he is a human
thus in Arabic we say, bani Adam = a son of Adam, which means a decent of Adam
descendant
a decedent of Adam
[You]
1:16pm
thus with descent it the descent of Original Sin. Still, I recall in both some Christian and Jewish works the idea of earlier races or tests of Eves
[Sultan Ratrout]
1:19pm
yep
u know even prophet Mohammad consulted Jews and Christians on the interpretation of some verses from the quran
* * *
http://www.philosophychatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&p=162145#p162145 Moved from anything science to philosophy chat ?
Are Cosmology and Quantum Science religions?
Interdisciplinary science discussions. Also, if you are not sure where to place your article, or if there isn't a forum specialized enough, please post it here.
Moderators: linford86, xcthulhu
Two of today's comments I found interesting from Lincoln
Good language on bad ideas is still lipstick on a pig.
I agree that there are certainly sensationalist popularizers. But, as one who does some professional popularization, I can attest to the fact that the publisher is behind at least a good chunk of that. After all, the publisher doesn't much care about what's on the paper, as long as he/she/they can move a helluva lot of them. As in nearly every aspect of human endeavor, drama and sensation sells. Toss in some sex and vampires and maybe a teenaged wizard or two and you're looking at real bucks.
Nuance doesn't move books.
The bottom line is that sometimes a writer must decide between compromising their scientific principles to allow for some financial success and at least getting scientific-ish ideas out there, or purity and penury. It's a very fine line and, given the relatively modest sales of my books, I've not sold out yet.
I think of the successful guys out there now, only Kaku and Hawking have gone completely over to the dark side.
* * *
The only one that really ticks me off is Kaku. He'll talk about anything. I saw him on some Nova or something talking about global warming. I'd wager he doesn't know anything more about global warming than many people. But he's gotten a sufficiently large media presence that knowledge is less important than recognizability.
I'm thinking about cultivating Einstein hair myself. Apparently it makes you smarter. And I don't aim for fluff. Hence the minivan and not the Jag.
* * *
On the Unity and Cognitive Partition of the Creator Concept: continued on next blog where physics notions, language, and our religious thoughts seem to make deep connections.
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