Saturday, October 5, 2013

Quantum Mysticism or Superdeterminism and Photogravons

Quantum Mysticism or Superdeterminism and Photogravons

L. Edgar Otto    05 October 2013

This comment exchange today on facebook after reading Lubos posting on Sabine:  (and in making these illustrations yesterday you can see synchronously the issues were still on my mind... note the pale green in the photogravon illustration wave packets, while artistic the non gray color from the colorful context is there because we simplify the pixel range in bits of complimentary and inversion information.

My comment to Sabine:
saved pdf presentation...  "Bell's theorem can not be used" and "Not necessarily spooky at a distance"   I agree, and I am just a public (peeved to that the radio and space efforts are held back and study interrupted a year maybe for no good reason!) the last statement reads to me as two things: that it is true over a distance local or not the laws, deeper or otherwise, are universal; and that as there is distance there can be the necessary exception and limited "spookyness" .

Giorgio Torrieri One think you might want want to think about in the future is that "super-determinism" (unlike "simple" non local hidden variables) also solves the paradoxes associated with the Kochen-Specker theorem (the "extra variables" alter the probability ensemble).
For the record, I guess it is an aesthetic judgement, but I find "quantum mechanics as is", as a mathematican representation of the limits of our capacity to obtain information from the world (along with enthropic/relational interpretations) to be more straight-forward and plausible than any of the deterministic (including of the super variety  ) extensions thought up of it. But unicuique suum!

Giorgio Torrieri PS: I think Kochen-Specker is a MUCH stronger objection to hidden variable type extensions of QM than Bells theorem. I can conceivably imagine "hidden things" moving instantaneusly from place to place. I cannot understand how probabilities can add to anything different from one. And "contextual hidden variables" is an enormous copout, its basically QM by another name. I guess something similar to your superdeterministic theories is needed to have classical probability and QM (on a mathematical level, Bells and Kochen-Specker theorems are related, so its not surprising both agree).

For the record, I guess it is an aesthetic judgement, but I find "quantum mechanics as is", as amathematican representation of the limits of our capacity to obtain information from the world (along with enthropic/relational interpretations) to be more straight-forward and plausible than any of the deterministic (including of the super variety  ) extensions thought up of it. But unicuique suum!
L. Edgar Otto Giorgio...that view works of course, but not if we want to go a little deeper into something like say "photogravons" not to mention tunning thru the polarization to real physics a step beyond these frontier issues and experiments... Where are such limits... at the rummage sale of theories, sometimes we are stuck with no deposit thus no return

Sabine,  Lubos posted about this now on blogspot (yes, you dont bother to read him and I probably should not either.l..but I am a little ashamed of what some of our  US universities must be teaching foreign students.)  Does he not see that his arguments apply as well to his grasp of string theory? Now that is a wider science fiction and illogical, but good for a comedy of not as good as the local situation physics that muddles thru the inevitable tragedies of research where we are better than that.  Commenting when you wrote this idea...he said it should not be done around giving birth- but is that not something rather determined once the process is started- Lubos lacks such creativity.  Besides he simply does not understand the deeper concepts of chirality.  But who believes anything in the virtual internet anyway?

iorgio... I do not know Kochen-Specker,  but if it is anything like Bell the issue here is not an idea of the same thing repeated, one or many patterns, nor can it be totally random from a set, as we vibrate between these extreme states... it is rather in the area of useful information we can build on... when we go from one extreme to the other back and forth... a little more than issues of inequalities... We should not leave our theories at the level where we do not yet, but suspect, the why of the generations and shift issue regardless of why or where things are asymmetric or one sided in simple time direction.

L. Edgar Otto Giorgio...when it comes to equations of powers of absolute values we can (but it takes animation to see it) find points that jump from one continuous path to another. Math itself "imagines" this.

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Now in Lubos previous post... some points correct but misfit the social context especially when the bigger the lie the more it is believed, and the tended constituency (say how many relate to the big bang sitcom) or any so called statistical analysis... well, here we see what Lubos really thinks about women's contribution to science. Although politics in a recent article tends to lower our judgement and perhaps whatever IQ is, so we cannot see the shallow disruptive humor without irony sound in the crowd...

What comes to mind is not the dark accompaning illustration for his post- but one of the lady because of a cell phone in Pakistan being stoned to death over some quasi-religious motivated world conception.

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The issue of thermodynamic symmetry between the hot and cold regions needs not be in balance although the area of the WMAP seems to be equal in land and seas so to speak.  For as in our planet the oceans and continents may vary in scale independently.  So what math would reasonably relate these values into a higher generalization or are such symmetries only a part of our local viewing as if inflation ideas? Outside our current ability to model perhaps.
for science and math tonight on fb  I made these comments:

More on Einstein's Brain

other data, I recall, was that the hemispheres differed in his brain for one side had many more secondary connections between neurons... a decidedly asymmetric case while one would expect this mind to understand a higher unity of physics especially if competent in music as it integrates that aspect of our hemispheres.  But it is the awakening difference more than the limitation of equivalent but equal sides of symmetry as beauty... it depends perhaps on those things in our brains that differentiate their integrity, distinct or not as right or left, in that they mimic the two main branches of physics.  Brilliance is not necessarily the idea of creative genius but focused and adaptable  net balance - a deeper sense of the speed of enlightenment.

Magnetic Plecebos 

Evidently the only know effects of cell phone radiation proven so far is that in women it increases their fertility... electromagnetism has still unknown effects placebo or not... especially what magnetism is deep down... I have often wondered why ladies alone at bar close stand outside and frantically call on their cell phones.

and a comment of mine to myself on fb on the articles of which the newscientist posted earlier:
 This is not to say that on a still higher level between adjacent dimensions we cannot imagine a divergence of higher inflation's but these might not be a path to radical new universes outside of greater unity.

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on fb around 11pm a comment to the philosophychatforum:
This is metaphysics of sorts... like the muon creating a vacuum as all else not itself at its creation.  But is it logic, a unified logic that integrates previous logics if logic is sound?  Enter then between the 1 and zero quantum logic then fuzzy logic... let us consider too, as your post ends on things we do not understand (notwithstanding the appeal to  genetics so I presume epistemology) Leibniz in his consideration of discernible indiscernible's...  issues also in the deep and dark world of current new physics... but let us go a step even higher, what are we to make of the indistinguishable distinguishable's?

Oh I should have made it clear  1 as possible and 0 as impossible within the extremes of the quantum view.


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